Unimportant was not too happy with Kate's response. Because I like to smooth feathers, and because our inbox is empty, I'm going to take another stab at this one.
Here's his comment:
OK, I'm sorry I said she isn't fat. Because now it's apparently not only wrong to call someone "fat", but "not fat" as well? How the hell is a guy suppose to get it right when everything is wrong? I only added the fact because any time I ask someone for advice on this the first thing they say is, "Well, IS she fat?" or if they know her, "Well, she COULD afford to lose a few pounds."
And I get the whole society thing, I'm out numbered so I shouldn't even bother. But WTF is this...
"You claim your opinion is unimportant to her, but she's made a note of every body you find unacceptable, every fat joke you've ever made, every time you've denigrated a skinny model for having visible bones. She knows your opinion is that you want a hot, sexy, beautiful woman."
So now it's my fault because I find some people to be attractive and others not? I'm to blame because I find HER to be incredibly sexy just the way she is? Aren't we suppose to be attracted to our partner? I don't get it.
Or maybe I do get it. Don't bother trying because you can never get it right. You'll always be wrong because you're just a stupid pig/dog/man.
Thanks, that helps.
First, I'm not going to disagree with Kate's assertion that you're unknowingly contributing to the problem. That doesn't make you a bad person; it makes you a victim of society the same way your girlfriend (and everyone except for Kate) is. It also doesn't mean you should stop trying.
To Kate's point, when you say things like "She is not fat as I define it," "She is sexy to me," and "I find HER to be incredibly sexy just the way she is." You're making qualifications that imply that your opinion is different from everyone else's. Your girlfriend is hearing "Yeah, most people think you're fat but I don't care." As much as it sucks to admit it, when you stack your opinion against everyone else's, your feelings are less important, especially to someone who is self-conscious about their body.
So what can you do to change this? Drop the qualifiers. "You are beautiful." "You are sexy." "You look hot in that dress." Make comments about her appearance simple, declarative, universal statements. And don't just make them when she's complaining that these pants make her ass look big or this dress makes her look like a circus tent. Tell her when she least expects it.
The more you build her confidence, the less reliant she'll be on what other people think, and then you both win.
My goodness, can a guy catch a break? Maybe when he says that "she is attractive 'to me'", he means that he finds her attractive, as opposed to how she sees herself.
ReplyDeleteor do you both find secret joy in poiting out that the readers and writers of letters are horrid people who have to control every word they say and every way they say it? Just like you can read into his words that he is implying his opinion is different than others, why not read into his words that he is trying to show that he finds nothing wrong with her body despite her many many attempts to point out the flaws only she sees.
Maybe y'all will get some credibility.
"Anonymous" #1 is clearly a guy. Phrasing is important to women. We are insecure because we don't all look like Gisele and think every man wants us to. We're all crazy, I'm ok with that. Men are crazy, too- (eg: A sporting event loss should not ruin one's day and cause a fit of rage.) We just need to learn what sets each other off and avoid doing those things...y'all
ReplyDeleteActually, Anon#1 Is a female.
ReplyDeleteIf a woman were being abused, would you tell her to avoid doing the things that trigger the abuse? I don't think so. I know this is not a case of abuse, but you may want to watch how YOU phrase things as well, Anon #2 et all.
The problem is the girlfriend's self esteem, NOT the boyfriend's words of choice. He never even stated how he phrased things; Christy and Kate seem to assume they know what he said to her based on his short original letter. The GF is looking for flaws in herself, so to me it seems that no matter what he says, she'll find flaws no matter what.
Maybe the guy should tell her he's not talking about her appearance. Maybe ask her what she wants to do about it if her figure bothers her so much. You can only stroke someone's ego so much by playing into their little games before it becomes annoying. Self-depricating comments are bothersome to have to listen to, especially when they are unfounded and nothing you say can help the situation.
I sy, find out WHY she has low self esteem and help her resolve those issues. Maybe she has deep problems that need help. Maybe she's a narcisist who wants to be complimented all the time. Who knows. All *I* know, is that it is not the OP's problem here alone. It's also not his fault.
What exactly is a universal compliment? "That dress is nice"??? And then she'll say, "Oh so I didn't look nice in that other dress I had on?"
ReplyDeleteYou give mediocre advice without actual help. I guess you do get what you pay for - a free site with cheapo advice that really doesn't help anyone.
PS I am a female commentor.
This is the part that stood out to me:
ReplyDelete""You claim your opinion is unimportant to her, but she's made a note of every body you find unacceptable, every fat joke you've ever made, every time you've denigrated a skinny model for having visible bones. She knows your opinion is that you want a hot, sexy, beautiful woman."
So now it's my fault because I find some people to be attractive and others not? I'm to blame because I find HER to be incredibly sexy just the way she is? Aren't we suppose to be attracted to our partner? I don't get it. "
It's the commenting on other people's appearance at all that's the problem here. If you present yourself as someone who is looking at people and assessing them against a mental ideal, you're presenting yourself to the woman you love as someone who is mentally assessing and possibly criticizing her, despite your compliments. This isn't a bash - it's something that's encouraged and accepted societally, so much so that it's sometimes hard to see how damaging it really is. It's always important to think about the purpose behind societal norms - for this one, is the purpose of critically assessing women's appearances to make one's life inexplicably better, or is it to let women know that they are being watched and criticized, and if they want to avoid this, they'd better buy more beautifiers? It's something to keep in mind.
(This is Aletheia, Kate.)
To Alethia/Anon:
ReplyDeleteThe OP did not give that information in his original letter, but only in the follow up. In the original reply from Kate, he was basically reprimanded for helping society keep women self-conscious when he never said anything about how attractive/unattractive he found other bodies. They only assumed.
I get it - you cannot change how she's acting or reacting to the body she sees in the mirror, you can only change yourself (to the OP) in how you respond to her constant self-criticism.
BUT I think it's pretty shitty that he's being blamed for the girlfriend being self-conscious when he is actually trying to help her.
Anon - by "universal" I meant statements that aren't qualified by the speaker's opinions. "You are hot" implies "anyone would think so." "You're hot enough for me" implies "few would agree."
ReplyDeleteI understand that it was not Unimportant's intention to qualify his statements, I'm only trying to make him aware of how what he's said can be read by someone with a poor body image.